That post has been seen many times, largely because Copyfight linked to it.
Recently, proponents of yet another technical system for ambiguating copyrights came across it and posted a comment. I replied that they should read Matthew Skala's much better articles on the subject: "What Colour are your bits?" and "Colour, social beings, and undecidability." I think he really puts his finger on the misunderstandings at work here, and he completely convinced me that making a point about copyright with encoding hocus pocus is a dead end.
Still, I don't want to be closed minded, so I read their paper anyway. I find that the system they're talking about is pretty close to a system I linked to from five years ago, but with more automation.
Instead of focusing on the contents of files, the OFF System folks focus on ownership. They've basically shown that there's no sane way to assert ownership of blocks in their system, so there must be something wrong with the idea of ownership.
Here's an example of the thinking:
The separation of possession from violation is counter intuitive to many people. It is often attacked as follows: If block Z is copyrighted by Brittney, and you without permission possess a block B and a block C such that they XOR together to reproduce block Z, then you possess an encoding of block Z and have violated Brittney's copyright.I want to focus on that last statement.
This logic is easily shown false by the following scenario:
[details omitted]
In the above case Morgan can legitimately hold blocks B, C, D, and E in order to reproduce blocks X and Y. Holding these blocks in no way implies that Morgan has ever reproduced Z, intends to reproduce Z, or knows he can reproduce Z.
I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that intent and knowledge are important. Courts have ways of determining what was intended and what was known, and passing judgments based on those things. That's not to say they can do this perfectly, but in some sense, that's their job. I think a court would agree that Morgan hasn't done anything wrong (but I'm still not a lawyer).
If you have a computer throwing randomly generated data around willy-nilly with no criminal intent, that's fine. If your system, however, is some sleight-of-hand, obviously designed to confuse a judge, I doubt the law will look favorably on that.
In short, the law doesn't care about encodings. If your system is used to produce something perceived as identical to a copyrighted work (without permission), that's illegal. Of course, the folks who made the system have heard this before.
That is why, the team took the time to actually put together content and burn it to CD. According to traditional understanding, there must exist things that are on the "Shock CD" and things that are not on the Shock CD.This is still the wrong focus. Copyright isn't concerned so much with possession as it is with reproduction. If you look at the rights copyright grants, "possession" isn't among them. They're all to do with production, distribution, display, and performance. What the designers of the OFF System have done is create a system that reproduces something without "having" it anywhere, but the fact that there's no possession of copyrighted works is irrelevant as long as they're produced.
Deniability is not the same as legality, and it's especially not the same as innocence. Reproducing copyrighted works without permission is illegal, and the "no copyrighted works up my sleeve" bit doesn't change that.
19 comments:
What the designers of the OFF System have done is create a system that reproduces something without "having" it anywhere, but the fact that there's no possession of copyrighted works is irrelevant as long as they're produced.
I'll have to disagree with you here on some of the semantics. If a user indeed "produced" a copy, then an infringment MIGHT have been made. But if the user only "accesses" a legally made copy, that is not generally infringing behavior.
A very interesting thing is that if you just playing someone else's copy of a song or watching their video, without saving the file locally. This is not generally infringing activity. (Apple has a nice explaination of that here
After I say the above, most people tend to worry about the "source" of the content you are viewing or listening to. With pure digital content, the presumption is that existence or knowledge of the content must somehow de facto be infringement.
However, with traditional content delivery, this is not so. If you listen to a song on the radio you presume the radio station paid their fair share to play it. If you borrow a book from the library or watch a friends DVD, you don't presume they stole it, so it's OK for you to access it free too.
Only with pure digital media to we presume that since I have access, it must be stolen. It is an absurd concept.
If you a wondering how "legally made copies" can end up on systems such as the OFF System, I can refer you to section 1008, the betamax decision, the Rio decision, and last and least... fair-use.
(Sorry to only cite US law to others. These are just examples, your results may vary.)
Capi
Copyright isn't concerned so much with possession as it is with reproduction.
I think there are a couple thousand people who would tell you otherwise here. The RIAA doesn't appear interested in reproducers. They only appear interested in possessors. Clearly the person "sharing" a song doesn't make any reproductions. The person downloading the song does.
Current legal actions presume possession is infringement. These cases don't assert who might have made reproductions or even how many reproductions were made. The only evidence given against a possessor is that the RIAA was able to make a reproduction.
Now given that the RIAA is clearly authorized to make these reproductions, there seems scant evidence that any infringement actually took place.
That paper seems to make a pretty convincing argument that the blocks in the OFF System cannot be assigned copyright in a consistent manner.
What Capi seems to arguing is that the use of these "owner free blocks" to reproduce a copyrighted work is non-infringing behaviour. I would disagree with him there (he does correctly point out that this is a function of local laws).
However, although it seems obvious to me that it is possible to reconstruct a copyrighted work from non-copyrighted components, this doesn't mean that the possession or distribution or those components should be controlled.
The "colour" of an OFF block would seem to be determined not by what is in it, or even where it came from, but by why a particular person wants it.
If the RIAA produced video evidence of you using these blocks to recreate a copyrighted work (without authorisation from the copyright holder or a fair use reason to do so), you would rightly be found guilty of infringement.
Due to the multi-use nature of the blocks, anything short of that smacks of victimisation.
What Capi seems to arguing is that the use of these "owner free blocks" to reproduce a copyrighted work is non-infringing behaviour.
Specifically what I am arguing is that simply accessing the copyrighted work is not de facto infringing behavior.
The "On Copyrightable Numbers" paper is copyrighted by crackerjack. We know this because under international copyright law, if something doesn't say it is public domain, it is copyrighted by the author.
Now if you clicked the link, read the paper, closed the window and went on about your business, you probably don't believe you have infringed crackerjack's copyright.
This is because traditionally, if you can see a paper, you do not infringe copyrights by reading it. If you hear music, you to not infringe copyrights by listening to it. If you can see a movie...
You infringe copyrights by making additional copies fixed in tangable form.
It would seem assinine of me to presume that because you read the paper and responded to it, you obviously made a bootleg copy.
What Capi seems to arguing is that the use of these "owner free blocks" to reproduce a copyrighted work is non-infringing behaviour.
I agree that Capi is arguing that. I don't think, however, that you can "scrub off" the copyright. Monolith's whole game was "we're going to put copyrighted works through a ringer that removes the copyright, then put them back together, and the copyright still won't be there." Or something like that. Now, OFF comes along and makes it more convoluted: not only do their "blocks" not have copyright, but if you think they do, then they actually have lots of copyrights, and boy won't that turn your brain inside out? It's the same problem. You can jigsaw it all up so there's no copyright, sure, but once you put the peices back together, there's an infringement.
Now, I'll grant, you could make this situation confusing enough as to make the guilty party very difficult to determine. That doesn't mean no crime was comitted.
Now if you clicked the link, read the paper, closed the window and went on about your business, you probably don't believe you have infringed crackerjack's copyright.
If the copy of the paper you got came from someone who was not authorized to reproduce it, then that someone has infringed, certainly.
Likewise, if you're getting copyrighted works from a CD, from otherwise unintelligible noise, trough some mathematical process, and the holder of the copyright didn't authorize that, there's infringement.
The RIAA doesn't appear interested in reproducers. They only appear interested in possessors.
They consider possession of unauthorized copies to be evidence of unauthorized copying (go figure). I haven't paid close attention to their activities lately, but it seemed to be true in the past that they'd go after people who were offering their works far more than people who had them but didn't offer them to the world.
Clearly the person "sharing" a song doesn't make any reproductions. The person downloading the song does.
I disagree. The person "sharing" is in the business of distribution, and that's copyright infringement.
Only with pure digital media to we presume that since I have access, it must be stolen. It is an absurd concept.
I don't think that presumption is made. I have a couple thousand songs I ripped right from CDs. Copyright law doesn't have a problem with that until I start distributing them on the Internet.
And if they do make that presumption, I'll disagree with them.
Just because it is legal to access copyrighted songs downloaded from iTunes, does this mean that it is necessarily legal to access any old mp3 of the same music? (IANAL)
I assume that the copyright holders have authorised the public to access an iTunes playlist? Probably with many provisos, such as "you must use the iTunes software to do it".
On further reading: it seems to me that, if properly implemented, something like the OFF System could provide the average file sharer with far more security than proxying and encryption of data. (I say this, of course, without condoning copyright infringement.)
We are bordering on violent agreement. I agree there is no "scrubbing off" of copyright. If the work was copyrighted, the work remains copyrighted.
If the copy of the paper you got came from someone who was not authorized to reproduce it, then that someone has infringed, certainly.
One copy of the paper was authorized to be published on the Shock CD image. One CD image was authorized to be placed on the web site. No "distribution" took place as this implies multiple copies must exist somewhere.
You on the other hand had no "authorization" from crackerjack to either view it or copy it to your computer. That part is absolutely given.
The open question is did YOU infringe crackerjack's copyright by accessing and reading the paper.
I say NO, you didn't. You didn't make any tangable copy.
There is still only one copy which was "legally made under [title 17]" and it is exactly where the Shanghai team made it. It is just that the location is in an intangable blockspace.
Capi
"Specifically what I am arguing is that simply accessing the copyrighted work is not de facto infringing behavior."
Is it possible to access a copyrighted work without making a reproduction? Perhaps with a book, yes. But with a computer file? If the answer to this question is "no", then your argument seems to hinge upon whether that reproduction is saved or not. A point which may or may not be legally moot. (Again, IANAL)
Then again, if I decide to broadcast my CD collection with an amateur radio transmitter, I am pretty sure that it is me that is infringing copyright and not any listeners.
I admit, the situation appears somewhat messy.
I have a couple thousand songs I ripped right from CDs. Copyright law doesn't have a problem with that until I start distributing them on the Internet.
It is not that "copyright law doesn't have a problem with that," your copies ARE authorized copies. Specifically they are authorized by Title 17, Section 1008 of copyright law.
Actually, Congress intentionally authorized all non-commercial copying done by consumers, to avoid the annoying lawsuits being brought by the recording industry.
From House Report No. 102-873(I), September 17, 1992:
"In short, the reported legislation would clearly establish that consumers cannot be sued for making analog or digital audio copies for private noncommercial use."
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So yes, not only do you have the right to access arbitrarily made mp3s, you also have the right to copy them for non-commercial use. (At least if copyright law is not applied arbitrarily.)
Capi
(IANAL)
But with a computer file? If the answer to this question is "no"... I admit, the situation appears somewhat messy.
Oh it is far more than messy. It is absurd and completely unrelated to reality.
It has already been ruled, by some courts, that ANY access of digital data makes a copy. This includes playing a CD in a standard CD player or a DVD in a standard DVD player. Also simply viewing a web page has been ruled making a copy. Making an <a href=...> link has been ruled creating a copyright infringing device.
The number of infringements on this page alone is obscene.
"So yes, not only do you have the right to access arbitrarily made mp3s, you also have the right to copy them for non-commercial use. (At least if copyright law is not applied arbitrarily.)"
I can't see that you have clearly established the right of access here, Capi.
However, your citations *do* seem to clearly establish the right to make non-commercial copies once you have the right of access. At least, for those in the US.
Under US copyright law, there is no prohibition against access to any media. So there is no "access right" per se to be established.
Actually, one of the main points of copyright law is to facilitate access, while protecting limited rights of the creator.
Every counter argument hangs on the exclusive right to distribute copies. I don't believe this right can be infringed unless infringing copies are actually made.
Although I'm not prepared to admit that the unauthorised distribution of copyrighted music over p2p networks is non-infringing behaviour (in the US) at this point, I am having difficulty making a logical argument to that effect in the light of what has been said above.
I think I'll have to admit that I've been trounced and defer to someone more qualified.
Thanks for your insightful debate.
The benifit of the OFF System design is that there is no need to distribute copies, ever. This has been the achilles heal that the RIAA and MPAA have used to steal the rights of copy owners.
(We do know that copy owners have separate rights from copyright holders, right? I guess that will have to wait until Kyle drops another post.)
In the OFF System, one copy is enough for everyone. Just like glueing a copy of the newspaper to a wall makes one copy enough for a village.
It is hard to argue that the guy who bought the paper isn't allowed to glue it to a wall. After all that is one of the rights that comes from being the owner of a copy. It is ill concieved to argue that even if a newspaper is glued to a wall, people must be prevented from reading it.
So, given recent events, the only target left to receive the wrath of the publishers is...
the guy who owns the wall.
So really what the OFF System does is build a virtual, distributed "ownerless" wall, that copy owners can use to glue their property to.
Thank you for helping me sort out that metaphor. I can always use another metaphor. :)
I'm not smart enough to read all that info about copyright info and comment on it. My comment is more of a personal nature, so feel free to stop reading now if you're not Kyle, or read it anyway. Dude, some web article linked to one of your blog posts! Fashizzle! Wow! [kow-tow]
It seems to me the OFF System is less like sticking my copy of a paper to a wall than it is like sticking a copy of my copy of a paper to the wall. You may now argue over whether that constitutes fair use.
Dude, some web article linked to one of your blog posts! Fashizzle! Wow! [kow-tow]
Yeah, I guess that was my fifteen minutes.
Any copy you make legally under Title 17 is "your copy". You can "stick it" or otherwise dispose of it anywhere you would like. All without needing to consider "fair-use".
"Fair-use" is usually the last resort of those who think they are already guilty. I make no such claim.
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I appreciate you letting me make these points here on your blog. I didn't really mean to resurrect an old thread, but I was mis-directed here and was obviously too miopic to read the date of your previous post correctly.
Thank you for your tollerance. I shall now retire from spamming your blog.
Sincerely,
Capi
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